@ RAYPUBLISHER
Sorry about that - I tried several times to edit after posting, but for some reason the page kept refusing to allow me to do so.
I'll bear it in mind for the future, thanks.
The Searcher
JoinedPosts by The Searcher
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SHUNNING - Killing your brother!
by The Searcher inif a christian's speech or behaviour is contrary to god's standards as expressed in the bible, the scriptures give clear directions on how such a person should be treated, in order to benefit the individual and the christian congregation.
(matthew 18:15-17 galatians 6:1) what jesus says at matthew 18:17 is of paramount importance as to how an unrepentant christian wrongdoer should be treated; "if he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.
god's son gives two commands here, both of which have been distorted by men.
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SHUNNING - Killing your brother!
by The Searcher inif a christian's speech or behaviour is contrary to god's standards as expressed in the bible, the scriptures give clear directions on how such a person should be treated, in order to benefit the individual and the christian congregation.
(matthew 18:15-17 galatians 6:1) what jesus says at matthew 18:17 is of paramount importance as to how an unrepentant christian wrongdoer should be treated; "if he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.
god's son gives two commands here, both of which have been distorted by men.
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The Searcher
If a Christian's speech or behaviour is contrary to God's standards as expressed in the Bible, the Scriptures give clear directions on how such a person should be treated, in order to benefit the individual and the Christian congregation. (Matthew 18:15-17 Galatians 6:1) What Jesus says at Matthew 18:17 is of paramount importance as to how an unrepentant Christian wrongdoer should be treated; "If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector ."
God's son gives two commands here, both of which have been distorted by men.
He orders that the last stage in trying to correct an offender's behaviour, should be that all in the congregation be made aware of the corrupt conduct being perpetrated.
(The apostle Paul confirms at 1 Timothy 5:20 that this is exactly what Christ's meant. Paul did not say that that two or three elders would carry out a judge and jury function in secret discussions. He stated that 'all' would know the reasons why someone was being reproved (to whatever extent) in order for it to serve as a warning to 'all' in the faith)
If still unrepentant, then the person had to be removed from the congregation.
Having been disfellowshipped, the individual was to be treated as "a man of the nations and as a tax collector." The standard was set by Christ himself!
However, the practice of 'shunning' - refusing to speak to such a person - cannot by any stretch of the imagination be reconciled with what Jesus said, otherwise, 'men of the nations and tax collectors' must also be shunned! So much for preaching the good news'.
Therefore, in order not to "go beyond the things written" and invalidate God's Word by adhering to the traditions of men, we must verify for ourselves- under pain of death - the scriptural, Christian, and loving way in which errant ones should be treated.
The Scriptures which are used to justify the figurative 'stoning to death' of a friend or relative should be examined closely:
1 Corinthians 5:11
- "But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man."Titus 3:10
- "As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition."1 Timothy 1:20 -
"Hy·me·nae′us and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme."1 John 2:19 -
"They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort."2 John 9-11 -
"He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him .* For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."(* Literally, "never receive him into YOUR homes to be rejoicing to him.")
The word 'shunning' does not appear in any of these verses, nor in any other Bible references to disfellowshipped ones.
Shunning was instigated in the 20th Century by men who based the practice on a false reasoning of the aforementioned verses. The Greek word 'synanamignymi' which Paul used at 1 Corinthians 5:11 means ' to keep company with, be intimate with one'. Paul was admonishing Christians to effectively distance themselves from social contact with such persons. Nothing to indicate shunning.
Thereafter, disfellowshipped ones would be regarded as people of the nations, and be invited to put faith in Christ and repent.
This is conclusively confirmed in the Bible and in everyday life by millions of Jehovah's Witnesses.
The shunning of disfellowshipped ones has no basis in Scripture. An 'apostate' is defined as someone who 'stands away from the teachings or abandons a faith in such'. As such, Satan the Devil is viewed as the very first apostate. Was he shunned? By reading Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7, and Matthew 4:1-11, it is clear that God and Jesus had no concept of a shunning policy for someone who was opposed to their thinking. In the four Gospel accounts, Jesus furnishes us with numerous further examples of how he was more than willing to speak to apostates - the Pharisees and the Sadducees - whom he said were Satan's offspring!
At Mark 3:22-30 Jesus actually called them over to himself, in order to to preach to them. Neither Jehovah nor Christ would condemn us for copying their examples, would they? Likewise, when preaching the good news of the Kingdom, every Witness is obliged to speak to 'apostates' - people within Christendom! Christendom is apostate, isn't it? Or are there differing degrees and classes of apostates?
Other gigantic 'elephants in the room' which must be reasoned on by everyone affected by the shunning doctrine, are these;
1) If shunning is a command from Jehovah through His Word the Bible, (and no one , but no one is exempt from obeying God's commands) then why are elders permitted to break this 'law' with impunity by speaking to unrepentant disfellowshipped ones, with the aim of 'encouraging' them back to the Kingdom Hall?
2) If a disfellowshipped person lives at home with their Witness relatives, they can all continue to act just as a normal everyday family would - sharing in entertainment, conversing, and showing love and affection to each other. But if the disfellowshipped person moved out that home and into the house next door, all of the above would cease instantly!
Why would one of God's rigid 'commands' suddenly become so flexible? This is what happens when people 'go beyond the things that are written' and impose their own interpretation on Scriptures, for whatever motives!
'Does not interpretation belong to God?' . (Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20)
'Under pain of death'
- anyone who disfellowships a person for having a different point of view from theirs on a Bible matter, and causes that person to be figuratively 'stoned to death' by their judgement, condemns themselves by their actions. (Matthew 25:41-46) -
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Many At Bethel Head Quarter Know The Governing Body Are Psycho's But They Too Afraid To Say Anything
by frankiespeakin ini think a lot of people at bethel especially the older ones are terrified of these new guys on the governing body and already know they are a bunch of over the hill narcissistic personality disorder cases.. but they are caught in the middle and i'm sure lots of people are waking up with these egomaniacs around..
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The Searcher
Personally, I think that many members of the "Worldwide Order of Special Full Time Jehovah's Witnesses" (Bethelites) will be pretty stressed, wondering if they are in line for redundancy due to the consolidation (cost-cutting) taking place globally.
Strange though, after all the "necessary staff cuts" in the past few years, last year's Branch figures show an increase in staff of more than 500! I wonder how many of those forced out feel about this paradox?
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How many former Jehovah's Witnesses bury their head in the sand when it comes to reasoning about the NGO "conspiracy"?
by Change Name inhi all - sure sure, you can call me a troll or brainwashed cult member.
i am totally interested in how your answers to these questions.. .
do you find yourself ignoring anything that jehovah's witnesses bring out in regards to their former status as an ngo?.
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The Searcher
@ CHANGE NAME
Hello Brother: unlike you, I am still "in".
Therefore I can appreciate why you have your points of view. However, over the past 3-4 years, I have awakened to numerous Bible and organizational truths which have left me feeling sick to my stomach at times. I could not believe at first what I was discovering, but I was searching for truth and accepted it.
I was not "corrupted" by any apostate information - I studied the Bible and compared it with the Watchtower CD ROM information.
If you are looking for truth (regardless how painful it may be - and it will be!) I will gladly discuss with you any aspect of my personal Bible research which conflicts with WTBTS interpretations.
If you keep a closed mind, then you are rejecting Psalm 146:3 & Acts 5:29.
Don't trust men - not even prominent ones.
p.s. My heart goes out to my many decent and genuine brothers and sisters who are just accepting the spoon-feeding, and not examining what they are being given.
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Just wanted you to know, none of you are intriguing. Rather, you're all quite repulsive.
by Theocratic Sedition innot saying that's my personal opinion, but this week's congregation bible study asks the viewpoint question, "would apostate literature or internet sites intrigue you or repulse you?
"- jeremiah book, page 70, para 7. .
gotta love it.. i guess apostate sites are like crime scenes.
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The Searcher
I find it extremely upsetting that a black choker is being vilified here.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with such a decorative item being worn by a sister. In fact, one of our elder's has a 19 year old daughter who occasionly wears something similar, and when it's worn along with her painted-on virtually see-through, long sleeveless & back-less black dress - she looks wonderful! (well, she must do, because everyone looks at her!)
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Who pioneered with the promise of having 'Jehovah provide' and ended up dirt poor anyway?
by Julia Orwell ini ask this because the wt always bangs on about if you trust in jehovah and make that leap into pioneering, you will always be provided for.
at the time i joined the cult, a friend was continuous aux.
pioneering.
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The Searcher
There's a saying I've known since I was a kid; "God helps those who help themselves."
It always churns my stomach when I hear certain ones claim that a fortuitous outcome of a difficult situation was thanks to Jehovah's direct intervention.
Like our Circuit Overseer's experience, that when his bride-to-be was thinking of giving up pioneering to earn a bit more money, (when they were both pioneers) he suddenly got TWO 'phone calls offering him very good window-cleaning contracts. So she didn't have to give up pioneering!
When he put this happenstance down to Divine intervention, I said to my wife, "I wonder how inferior all the brothers and sisters feel who are still unemployed/hungry/evicted etc.
Christians are obligated to do the best they can to support their families - by higher education or any other decent & legal means.
(1 Timothy 5:8) "Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith."
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We just laughed and laughed
by irondork inan experience was told buy one of our congregation's uber pioneer sisters regarding a bible study she brought to the memorial last year.
a good study.
smart.
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The Searcher
"The roomie and I will be commemorating the Lord's Evening Meal in our home again this year. This will be the second time I partake according to Christ's instructions."
Likewise!!!
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To those still "in"... how do these scriptures impact you?
by leaving_quietly inmatt 7:13, 14: "go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14?whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.".
matt 24:44: "on this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the son of man is coming.".
2 pet 3:3, 4: "for you know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4?and saying: where is this promised presence of his?
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The Searcher
The first thing Christ will do is judge those in the "house of God" - everyone who claims to be a Christian! (1 Peter 4:17; Matthew 7:22,23)
At John 14:21, Jesus laid down simple conditions which his true followers would abide by. He will decide exactly who tried to be his disciple, based on what his teachings were. However, the Scriptures provide abundant evidence that a Christian must speak to others about Christ's purpose in dying -
Isaiah 61:1; Matt. 9:35; Matt. 24:14; Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:15; Luke 9:2; 1 Cor. 9:16; Col. 1:25-28; Titus 1:2-3; Phil. 1:15; 2 Timothy 4:1-2; Acts 20:20; Acts 28:30-31; Rom. 10:8-15; 1 Tim. 4:16; 1 Thess. 2:4; 1 Cor. 9:22; 1 Peter 3:15; Acts 1:8; Rom. 10:18; 2 Cor. 4:3-4; Rom. 11:13; Rev. 14:6; Rom. 1:15-16; 1 Cor. 9:16; Acts 20:24.
Sadly, most Christians are averse to this aspect of Christianity, and are just as likely to criticise any who do.
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For those still "in"... is it just me?
by leaving_quietly ini'm still "in" and i've noticed an odd trend recently.
conversations with jws seem to be more jw-ish than ever!
in normal conversation, i'll hear: "these watchtowers are just wonderful!
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The Searcher
Theocratic Sedition nailed it.
It's because we see things far more clearly than before, that worship and adoration of the GB really stands out and makes us sigh & groan over the detestable things being presented as 'inspired truth'!
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JWs as willing Human Shields for WT owned Kingdom Halls?
by prologos inthis might only be a rumor at least 2 stages from source*:.
bethel speaker at circuit, or one-day do:.
"if asked, you should be ready to form a human chain between a mob and a kingdom hall.
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The Searcher
New rhetoric and predictions will, of necessity, be introduced SOON to replace the now defunct ones. These will be announced at District Conventions and then in publications as "new light" or "new understandings". I am soooooooo looking forward to the DC this year to discover what "new" teachings are going to be spoon-fed to us.
The Org knows that the Internet is their biggest threat now, so I fully expect that the FDS will direct that anyone found to be looking at "apostate" © websites should be severely dealt with! (Coupled with the warning that you could be sinning against the holy spirit by doing such a thing!)